Scott Westerfeld Forum

Scott's Books => Leviathan / Behemoth / Goliath => Topic started by: ptoss1 on February 04, 2010, 05:55:27 AM

Title: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: ptoss1 on February 04, 2010, 05:55:27 AM
So how are the other countries affected by the Clanker/Darwinian mentality? Guesses, anybody?
Canada, China, Japan, Korea?
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: kokonut_soda on February 05, 2010, 05:26:35 PM
Good question - the whole time while I was reading the book, I couldn't help thinking about America, since they'll probably join in before the war is over.  (And I guess if Westerfeld does have them enter the war, it's a safe bet that they'll be Darwinist.)

Wikipedia says
Quote
When World War 1 broke out in 1914, all Dominions of the British Empire, including Canada, were called upon by Great Britain to fight on her behalf
So, considering the fact that at the time Canada was still basically under Britain's control, they more than likely would have Darwinists.

And during WWI, Japan apparently sided with the Entente, so perhaps they would have been officaly Darwinist?

Korea was neutral (which makes me wonder - is Switzerland completely neutral, or does it lean more towards Clankers/Darwinists?).

China, I'm not so sure about....they declared neutrality until 1917, when they (like the Americans) joined and fought against the Central Powers/Clankers.  But weren't there many different spheres of influence from different countries at the time?  I'm sure that would affect their stance on the Clanker/Darwinist fight.

But, my assumptions are limited because they're only based on politics and "who supported who."
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: ptoss1 on February 06, 2010, 06:19:27 AM
Good question - the whole time while I was reading the book, I couldn't help thinking about America, since they'll probably join in before the war is over.  (And I guess if Westerfeld does have them enter the war, it's a safe bet that they'll be Darwinist.)

Wikipedia says
Quote
When World War 1 broke out in 1914, all Dominions of the British Empire, including Canada, were called upon by Great Britain to fight on her behalf
So, considering the fact that at the time Canada was still basically under Britain's control, they more than likely would have Darwinists.

And during WWI, Japan apparently sided with the Entente, so perhaps they would have been officaly Darwinist?

Korea was neutral (which makes me wonder - is Switzerland completely neutral, or does it lean more towards Clankers/Darwinists?).

China, I'm not so sure about....they declared neutrality until 1917, when they (like the Americans) joined and fought against the Central Powers/Clankers.  But weren't there many different spheres of influence from different countries at the time?  I'm sure that would affect their stance on the Clanker/Darwinist fight.

But, my assumptions are limited because they're only based on politics and "who supported who."

There is a good chance that China will be Darwinist. Their national mythological animal, after all, is the DRAGON. Read Temeraire. They might not make it into the books, though, unless Scott suddenly decides to make each book 700 pages long. I believe, China at the time, was basically a bunch of colonies controlled by many countries, so the British might not be so popular there.



Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: Greenie on February 10, 2010, 11:35:08 AM
I think Scott will be keeping to history when it comes to that, if he includes anything about other countries. For example, as Kokonut_soda says, Canada was still essentially under the rule of Britain at the time, and was obligated to fight with the British and their Triple Entente. So I'd assume they would be on the Darwinist side.

I guess It depends on what Scott chooses to do!
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: Pedestrian on April 17, 2010, 02:28:34 PM
I kept wondering about America too. >_>
I mean, they join on what Scott-la has made the "Darwinist" side of the war, so...
/shrug.

We haven't heard that much about the other Darwinist countries at all, actually. They've been mentioned, but we haven't seen them. Serbia? Russia? France?
And the map in the book seems to show that Portugal is Darwinist, which...I--what?  .-.
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: FallingStar on April 20, 2010, 03:52:48 PM
Good question - the whole time while I was reading the book, I couldn't help thinking about America, since they'll probably join in before the war is over.  (And I guess if Westerfeld does have them enter the war, it's a safe bet that they'll be Darwinist.)

Wikipedia says
Quote
When World War 1 broke out in 1914, all Dominions of the British Empire, including Canada, were called upon by Great Britain to fight on her behalf
So, considering the fact that at the time Canada was still basically under Britain's control, they more than likely would have Darwinists.

And during WWI, Japan apparently sided with the Entente, so perhaps they would have been officaly Darwinist?

Korea was neutral (which makes me wonder - is Switzerland completely neutral, or does it lean more towards Clankers/Darwinists?).

China, I'm not so sure about....they declared neutrality until 1917, when they (like the Americans) joined and fought against the Central Powers/Clankers.  But weren't there many different spheres of influence from different countries at the time?  I'm sure that would affect their stance on the Clanker/Darwinist fight.

But, my assumptions are limited because they're only based on politics and "who supported who."

To put an entirely different idea out there...
...Asian culture evolved almost completely separately from Western. Perhaps they'll have a completely different type of weaponry? I'm going to wait and see what the Ottomans have, though, because that should give some indication.

On Canada: Canada KICKED BUTT in WWI!!! It was basically the era when they established themselves as an individual nation- they gained independence shortly after. The Battle of... uh... Something starting with 'V' is called 'the making of a nation,' basically Canada showed up and creamed everyone. It's said the Germans were deathly afraid of Canadian troops. (Go, Mattie, go! Don't be invisible! Beat that potato bastard!)<- please tell me someone got that reference...

I'm fair sure Canada/America would be Darwinist.

But what I really want to know is HOW DOES ITALY SWITCH SIDES?! If a 'side' is defined by weaponry, then... how does Italy betray the Central powers? Maybe he won't? (We all know Feli <3s his Doitsu, after all.) (Beware random references!) 
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: JimmyLost on April 21, 2010, 04:15:19 AM
That battle would be Vimy Ridge I'm faily certain ::)
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: MikeMagpuyo on April 21, 2010, 04:38:11 AM
Quote
But what I really want to know is HOW DOES ITALY SWITCH SIDES?! If a 'side' is defined by weaponry, then... how does Italy betray the Central powers? Maybe he won't? (We all know Feli <3s his Doitsu, after all.) (Beware random references!)

Although we can't expect Scott to follow history word for word, I think, if Italy does switch sides, is that Italy would use the Clankers against it own kin, and probably betray some info to the Triple Entente?
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: Shady-la on May 02, 2010, 03:53:42 AM
Japan is definitely clanker!
USA... they have a mix... cuz they are the "Great" American Melting Pot
china... they have a mix as well!
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: Mercy-la on June 03, 2010, 11:43:32 AM
For some reason I see America having a huge lag when it comes to Darwinism and such but I do see them as being Clankers all the way [: Also, I see Japana coming into the war as Clankers with all their industrials and such, although I might be wrong since I have poor knowledge when in comes to history and economics.
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: Boky on June 03, 2010, 05:27:28 PM
i think america would be both. *shrug*
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: waxesnostalgic on June 05, 2010, 12:48:05 AM
I can't really imagine any country being a combination... the other countries would have figured out that it works better if it had been tried before.

And I don't think that Italy switched sides until WW2... anyway they are shown as Darwinists on the map.
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: julia456 on June 05, 2010, 10:55:55 AM
Oh, this is an interesting topic!

I think there's a fair chance that America has chosen to ignore both Clanker and Darwinist technology.  Putting aside any possible religious objections, America before WWI - even up to WWII - was heavily isolationist.  We didn't wait to enter the war until 1917 because we thought it would be cool to swoop in at the last second and pose for all the victory photos; it just took that long to get anyone interested.  So I can easily see America doing the whole Amish thing and just maintaining the technology available circa 1850 (assuming, here, that Darwin was following the same general timeline as he did in the real world).

If the US goes for one side or the other, I'll be very interested to hear the rationale behind it.  Historically, America's ties with Germany were pretty much as strong as they were with Britain, and with less, you know, revolution.  Did you know that there was a strong push, back in the day, to have German declared as America's official language?  (And Ben Franklin thought the national bird should be the turkey, but that's a different story.)

Anyway.  Fun to think about. :)
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: America La on June 08, 2010, 12:57:58 AM
(Go, Mattie, go! Don't be invisible! Beat that potato bastard!)<- please tell me someone got that reference...
 (We all know Feli <3s his Doitsu, after all.) (Beware random references!)  
haha I got the reference! Got to love Hetalia ^_^

I think that most likly America would be Darwinist, but for some reason I think that they would have a fetish with independent flight, not the giant airships like the Leviathen. I don't know, it's just whenever the World Wars (mainly WWII but still...) come up someone always mentions airplanes...so maybe they would have some sort of bird that hooks onto their backs with it's tallons that allow more speed and acuracy than a Huxley?

Japan I think would be Clanker, just by the fact that their patterns in history of become industrialized later and having to compete with already established powers would cause both of them to be under similar influences. Also (from what I learned about Japan in WWI) Japan pretty much joined in at the very end so that they could take over Germany's Asian colonies, heck they even tried to take over China, who was an Ally!

There is also Russia, who by the map is obviously a Darwinist. But what would happen when the Bulshevics (sorry if thats spelled wrong) overthrew the tsars/provisional government? Along with communism would they bring Clanker ideas also?
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: monkeys_r_us on July 28, 2010, 01:15:16 AM
Technically, Japan would be Darwinist, but they might have some Clanker technology as well, like planes and such.

Yay! I got the reference too! (I just started watching it about 3 weeks ago, so I'm still kinda new to Hetalia. I wish I had known about it sooner!)
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: America La on August 05, 2010, 03:12:04 AM
Ya, I guess Japan could also be like the Ottoman's (urg I don't know if that has one or two t's) air ship sort of thing that Scott showed in the preview of the art a few weeks ago, but maybe more...asian-y?

Oh how are you liking Hetalia so far? Have you watched Funimation's dub previews (sorry about the off topicness).
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: monkeys_r_us on August 05, 2010, 06:57:22 AM
Maybe. Like a dragon, perhaps?

I love it! I've gotten to episode 49 so far, but I can't find anymore. :( I have read some of the translated webcomics though. :)
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: America La on August 07, 2010, 02:25:37 AM
Yes, I giant dragon that breaths greek fire  :D  (yes, I'm a history nerd XD) So then would China and Japan be similar do you think or would there be some differences that where made on purpose becuase it seems like those two countries don't like eachother very much.

I think the Funimation website has episodes subed up until episode 52 and they also have episodes 1-5 of the dub <3
I don't know where to tell you to find world series episodes but if you have a facedbook check the Axis Powers Hetalia wall on monday and someone will have probably posted the most recent episode, so that could help you find a website.
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: tridecagirl on August 09, 2010, 07:24:16 AM
Ooooh Greek fire! Lucky no military people have figured out how to replicate that yet. (Cuz it's magic, shhhh... X )  )
Title: Re: Countries Outside of Europe
Post by: Hello_Sailor on August 09, 2010, 10:35:52 AM
Perhaps stylistically they would be similar, as they are now. Politically, they would probably be different.