Scott Westerfeld Forum

Scott's Books => Leviathan / Behemoth / Goliath => Topic started by: tridecagirl on June 30, 2011, 11:45:06 AM

Title: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on June 30, 2011, 11:45:06 AM
This isn't meant to pick a fight. But now that Scott has chucked Lilit out of the closet, I was wondering what kind of situation she'd be in. Alas, Google has failed me. Does anyone know how the Ottoman Empire treated gays/lesbians in 1914? (I feel a fanfic brewing.  ;) )
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: QuanXeFa on June 30, 2011, 11:47:47 AM
If it was not recognized in britain and usa (i think), then it would be hard to be considered serious in the ottoman empire, but it that was the case, i don't think there would be any laws against it for the same reason.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on June 30, 2011, 11:50:46 AM
Uh huh. I believe the common religion at the time was Islam. The conservative brances, like conservative Christianity, usually don't approve.
However, Zaven was very pro-women's rights, so chances were their family wasn't Muslim, or was quite liberal for their time period. I don't believe Lilit always wears a veil while around Alek and Deryn, so definitely not strict Islam.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:08:40 AM
Did you post this topic because of me?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on July 09, 2011, 10:11:28 AM
No. Not everything's about you.... I posted it because Scott told us Lilit was officially a lesbian, and I was wondering what it would be like for her in her time period. I wanted to write a fic about it. So far, no information.  :P
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:20:23 AM
No. Not everything's about you.... I posted it because Scott told us Lilit was officially a lesbian, and I was wondering what it would be like for her in her time period. I wanted to write a fic about it. So far, no information.  :P
Wait...Lilith is a lesbian?! Why?! You know that disgusting people can use her in their own filthy fanfics. You know what I mean?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 10:25:35 AM
This isn't meant to pick a fight. But now that Scott has chucked Lilit out of the closet, I was wondering what kind of situation she'd be in. Alas, Google has failed me. Does anyone know how the Ottoman Empire treated gays/lesbians in 1914? (I feel a fanfic brewing.  ;) )
Interesting.  I googled it, binged it, and yahooed it....... Nothing  :P

Did you post this topic because of me?
Why would it be because of you?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:28:47 AM
This isn't meant to pick a fight. But now that Scott has chucked Lilit out of the closet, I was wondering what kind of situation she'd be in. Alas, Google has failed me. Does anyone know how the Ottoman Empire treated gays/lesbians in 1914? (I feel a fanfic brewing.  ;) )
Interesting.  I googled it, binged it, and yahooed it....... Nothing  :P

Did you post this topic because of me?
Why would it be because of you?
Well...Bea-la...I don't really like homos and i thought they are wrong and wierd. No time to argue, man. Everbody knows Carmine101 hated homos. Now, let's talk about what the heck is going on and why Scott wanted Lilith to be a lesbian.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:29:33 AM
Somebody please tell me why Scott wanted lilith to be a lesbian?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 10:30:42 AM
Somebody please tell me why Scott wanted lilith to be a lesbian?
I don't know!! He just did.  Probably to make it interesting....
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:32:12 AM
Somebody please tell me why Scott wanted lilith to be a lesbian?
I don't know!! He just did.  Probably to make it interesting....
Interesting? I hope not. Male authors always put some lesbians in their books.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BagpipeHeadache on July 09, 2011, 10:33:48 AM
.....Always?....




Calm down.....
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 10:34:18 AM
Somebody please tell me why Scott wanted lilith to be a lesbian?
I don't know!! He just did.  Probably to make it interesting....
Interesting? I hope not. Male authors always put some lesbians in their books.
Well people were actually gay/lesbian back then,  so maybe he was trying to make it realistic.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:37:26 AM
Somebody please tell me why Scott wanted lilith to be a lesbian?
I don't know!! He just did.  Probably to make it interesting....
Interesting? I hope not. Male authors always put some lesbians in their books.
Well people were actually gay/lesbian back then,  so maybe he was trying to make it realistic.
I don't know, man. If people know Lilith is a lesbian, then they will use her in their dirty fanfics. Trust me, I've seen everything. Look what they did to Call of Duty and Resident Evil.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BagpipeHeadache on July 09, 2011, 10:39:19 AM
Again, calm down.

If you don't like it or don't want to see it, then don't look for it.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:40:53 AM
Again, calm down.

If you don't like it or don't want to see it, then don't look for it.
Yeah...everytime. It happens to me every time. But what can I do?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BagpipeHeadache on July 09, 2011, 10:42:33 AM
Ignore it, and let those people who want to do those things do it. Nobody has to talk about it if they don't want to.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:43:39 AM
Ignore it, and let those people who want to do those things do it. Nobody has to talk about it if they don't want to.
Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: LiterateChick on July 09, 2011, 10:46:58 AM
Besides, if people really wanted to, they'd write those fanfics anyway. Doesn't matter whether the character's straight or gay. So quit your whining, no one wants to hear it.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:49:03 AM
Besides, if people really wanted to, they'd write those fanfics anyway. Doesn't matter whether the character's straight or gay. So quit your whining, no one wants to hear it.
Whoa, I've got an angry chick. Okay, lets just forget about it. Hey...its who i am.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: LiterateChick on July 09, 2011, 10:53:19 AM
Sorry for flipping out, but that seriously pisses me off. But yes, let's drop it. Arguments like this never end well.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on July 09, 2011, 10:54:16 AM
Sorry for flipping out, but that seriously pisses me off. But yes, let's drop it. Arguments like this never end well.
Hey, I'm Carmine101. Lets just get the hell out! See ya!
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on July 09, 2011, 11:12:11 AM
It's his business what he makes his characters act like. And lesbianism is not 'filthy', so let's quit with the slurs, k? You might offend people on here. Actually, you've already offended me.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 11:14:55 AM
  I really don't care when people have different beliefs, but if you're going to shove it in other people's faces and insult their beliefs. Then I care.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BagpipeHeadache on July 09, 2011, 11:15:24 AM
Exactly.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 11:18:16 AM
Let's just get back on topic........  I'm gonna get mad  >:(

Okay so I'm thinking that there was probably serious homophobia back then.  I mean, if people thought fabrications were "godless", they might have had the same opinion on homosexuality.  Just a theory because I can't find anything on it.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on July 09, 2011, 11:18:57 AM
Neither could I. I did find out that male homosexuals have been beheaded in Turkey.  :(
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 11:20:14 AM
Neither could I. I did find out that male homosexuals have been beheaded in Turkey.  :(
That's awful.  Hey maybe there will be more info in Goliath. 
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on July 09, 2011, 11:25:14 AM
Gak. Any form of intolerance makes me angry.

Speaking of 'filthy' fic, I hope she never finds out about slash fic. *whistles*
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BagpipeHeadache on July 09, 2011, 11:25:58 AM
....And that is?.....
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on July 09, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
Pairing two characters of the same gender when they're not really homosexual. (Newkirk/Alek  :o ) Usually extremely dirty.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BagpipeHeadache on July 09, 2011, 11:27:41 AM
.......Right......
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 11:29:15 AM
They're always interesting though........
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on July 09, 2011, 11:31:29 AM
I don't read dirty fics. It ruins the character for me.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bea-la on July 09, 2011, 11:34:24 AM
Yeah I've learned my lesson.  :P  All thought I do like So Julia's one.....
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BagpipeHeadache on July 09, 2011, 11:35:38 AM
....And that one was about?....
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: LiterateChick on July 09, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
Yeah I've learned my lesson.  :P  All thought I do like So Julia's one.....
That's 'cause it's Julia. She's awesome regardless.  :P
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Moonie on July 09, 2011, 01:31:02 PM
Trideca, your definition of slash is completely off. It's any pairing of the same gender. They can be gay/les/bi/pans/whatever in canon... or not. It doesn't make a difference. Still slash.

I'm not even go to touch mr.homphobe's comments. Yet.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Eraisuithiel on July 09, 2011, 02:03:57 PM
Now I want to know more about this. DX I don't suppose they were treated very well, though... I know that many homosexuals during WWII were taken to concetration camps and often tortured and experimented on in order to find a "cure for homosexuality" (which is stupid and disgusting), so I doubt homosexuals were treated any better before then. Or maybe they were? Who knows?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: CrazedHungerGamesFangirl on July 09, 2011, 10:50:38 PM
Yeah...up until a while ago (like, the 1950's in some places?) Being a homosexual was a crime...but like Scott said, they didn't think that female homosexuality existed.           
  Punishments? In some places, it meant losing your life...but in England, the punishment for being homosexual was eitgher 2 years of community service or undergoing hormonal therapy. I think.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: tridecagirl on July 09, 2011, 11:15:31 PM
Trideca, your definition of slash is completely off. It's any pairing of the same gender. They can be gay/les/bi/pans/whatever in canon... or not. It doesn't make a difference. Still slash.

I'm not even go to touch mr.homphobe's comments. Yet.


Ack. The article on fanfic I read lied. Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: CrazedHungerGamesFangirl on July 09, 2011, 11:26:03 PM
Trideca, your definition of slash is completely off. It's any pairing of the same gender. They can be gay/les/bi/pans/whatever in canon... or not. It doesn't make a difference. Still slash.

I'm not even go to touch mr.homphobe's comments. Yet.


Ack. The article on fanfic I read lied. Thanks for clearing that up.

  Slash fiction? Oh, yeah....well, it's probably possible for same-couple ship fanfics to be innocent, too...
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Kima-chan on July 10, 2011, 12:53:58 AM
I found this in wikipedia: "Schon im Osmanischen Reich standen gleichgeschlechtliche Handlungen seit 1852 nicht mehr unter Strafe."
It says that since 1852 homosexual acts (do you say it that way?) are not punished anymore in the Ottoman Empire.
Then I found several things about that they liked "unbehaarte Knaben" (hairless boys) but not much more. So I guess they were pretty open to that. But after all homosexuality was pretty normal in the past times, just think of the Romans or the Greeks.
After the Ottoman Empire became Turkey they took over this rule, although you still might get problems today, if you openly admit that you're gay/lesbian.
I hope that helps a bit.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Moonie on July 10, 2011, 04:43:00 AM
Well, that's for male sexuality. I'm lost on WW1, but I know around the Renaissance, I believe, screwing little boys was basically the cool new thing.
Also, for a while at least, girls were thought incapable of having sexual pleasure without a man, so lesbians were 'impossible.'
(http://roaring20somethings.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/the_more_you_know_small.jpg?w=450)


Note that Lilit has only kissed one girl. Who looked like a boy. And only one other person was around. And we'll be seeing her in Goliath- I highly doubt they're going back to Istanbul, so maybe Lilit's moved to a place more open? (....America is the only one I can think of, haha.) Who knows.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: CrazedHungerGamesFangirl on July 10, 2011, 11:01:45 AM
Well, that's for male sexuality. I'm lost on WW1, but I know around the Renaissance, I believe, screwing little boys was basically the cool new thing.
Also, for a while at least, girls were thought incapable of having sexual pleasure without a man, so lesbians were 'impossible.'
(http://roaring20somethings.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/the_more_you_know_small.jpg?w=450)


Note that Lilit has only kissed one girl. Who looked like a boy. And only one other person was around. And we'll be seeing her in Goliath- I highly doubt they're going back to Istanbul, so maybe Lilit's moved to a place more open? (....America is the only one I can think of, haha.) Who knows.


Yeah, they did think female homosexuality was impossible...didn't Scott say that during the meetup?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Capt Dec on July 10, 2011, 12:41:06 PM
Uh forgive me but i thought it was just that Lilit didn't realise Deryn was a girl. So it wouldn't matter?
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: LiterateChick on July 10, 2011, 12:48:20 PM
We're pretty sure that Lilit had in fact guessed Deryn was a girl when she kissed her. Plus Scott revealed that she was les in the last meet up.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Moonie on July 10, 2011, 01:46:05 PM
Uh forgive me but i thought it was just that Lilit didn't realise Deryn was a girl. So it wouldn't matter?
"I think you're the most brilliant boy I've ever met."
"I know you better than you think, Mr. Sharp."
"You don't know what a friend you have in Dylan."

LILIT WAS KINDA DROPPING HINTS LEFT AND RIGHT IN HER LAST SCENE.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Capt Dec on July 10, 2011, 09:07:32 PM
Ah ok forgive me then, it's been a while since i read behemoth, I appear to have rather forgotten quite a bit then.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: CrazedHungerGamesFangirl on July 11, 2011, 01:31:25 AM
Lilit rules, doesn't she? :)

Hmm...do you think she told her father about her homosexuality? Seeing as how close they were...
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on August 31, 2011, 08:53:11 AM
Lilit rules, doesn't she? :)

Hmm...do you think she told her father about her homosexuality? Seeing as how close they were...
A father would not abandon his child. If she is born this way, then the father will accept what God has given him.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on November 16, 2011, 09:31:13 PM
I used to be a dick here... :'(
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Leo-wa on November 17, 2011, 03:03:16 PM
This was something I'd been wondering about to.

Another thing about Lilit, she's an Armenian Christian living in a majority Muslim Turkish city (that's why her family was part of the Committee of Union and Progress instead of the Young Turks, the Young Turks were only for Turks). So I'm not sure if herself and her family would take the Armenian Christian view of lesbianism or the Turkish Muslim view. A quick and not exhaustive google search seems to indicate that both groups thought that Lesbians didn't exist though. Of course, I'd need to do more research to verify that.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Iris. on November 18, 2011, 07:37:39 AM
I'm not sure if Lilit's Christian though. I think her and Zaven are atheists or at least agnostic, seeing as they're into secular democracy and all that. But I think the views of most religions at the time were anti-homosexuality. Especially since I think they'd only recently proved that lesbianism was scientifically viable (there's a famous anecdote about Queen Victoria being shocked when a politician asked if they should make female homosexuality illegal, saying she didn't want to "give women ideas" and although it's probably not true I think it's typical of attitudes of the time).


Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Awesomesauce on November 20, 2011, 06:24:10 AM
Oh dear god...not this again. Ok, my opinion: Lilit is a proud lesbian and is awesome, Zaven loves his daughter the way she is and he is pretty awesome too, I have no idea about their religion, and I am done.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: waxesnostalgic on November 20, 2011, 11:42:58 AM
They have got a cross on the wall in their home... not that that really means anything.

I don't think it really matters whether or not people thought lesbians existed at this time. But I will say that people were writing novels like Carmilla during the 19th century, and then they were still reading Sappho too. The word "lesbian" was coined before 1900.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Iris. on November 20, 2011, 10:37:25 PM
I think the thing that a lot of writers do is imagine that since people didn't talk much about homosexuality in those days, they didn't exist. If we assume that there were just as many LGBTQ people back then as there are now, then that's an awful lot of people who most likely would have spent their whole lives struggling with their sexuality because of the social norms.

Which is why I really love Lilit, because it's like Scott Westerfeld's acknowledging that yes, these people existed. But what's better is that Lilit doesn't seem to struggle with it, but seems comfortable with it, and it doesn't define her at all. Also, she's rather badass.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: stopthattime_rave on February 05, 2013, 12:06:59 PM
Somebody please tell me why Scott wanted lilith to be a lesbian?
I don't know!! He just did.  Probably to make it interesting....
Interesting? I hope not. Male authors always put some lesbians in their books.
Well people were actually gay/lesbian back then,  so maybe he was trying to make it realistic.
I don't know, man. If people know Lilith is a lesbian, then they will use her in their dirty fanfics. Trust me, I've seen everything. Look what they did to Call of Duty and Resident Evil.
A: Rule 34, sugar: 'If it exists, there is porn of it.' Rule 35: 'If there is no porn of it, it will be made.' Rule 36: 'Someone is willing and able to create porn of it.' Leviathan is no exception, canon be DAMNED.
B: Frankly, almost all of the whatever I've found, let alone the porn, is Dalek. :BB
C: Hell, if anyone's been treated as the fandom bike, to use such a rude term, it's Deryn. There's porn with her fucking Alek, Lilit, and Newkirk. And that's not counting weird-ass slash ship drabbles. (Deryn/Bauer? What the fuck???)
D: People in this fandom actually don't sexualize Lilit (NOT LILITH) Her being a lesbian/bi/pan/fuck if we know for certain has nothing to do with it. There's barely any fic about her, period. :((
I think the thing that a lot of writers do is imagine that since people didn't talk much about homosexuality in those days, they didn't exist. If we assume that there were just as many LGBTQ people back then as there are now, then that's an awful lot of people who most likely would have spent their whole lives struggling with their sexuality because of the social norms.

Which is why I really love Lilit, because it's like Scott Westerfeld's acknowledging that yes, these people existed. But what's better is that Lilit doesn't seem to struggle with it, but seems comfortable with it, and it doesn't define her at all. Also, she's rather badass.
Also, this is good. :BB I would've bolded stuff, but it's pretty damn concise as is. :DD (oh dear god if i only did my homework with this much enthusiasm oh wow)
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: sandy5 on February 05, 2013, 12:14:15 PM
Now I want to know more about this. DX I don't suppose they were treated very well, though... I know that many homosexuals during WWII were taken to concetration camps and often tortured and experimented on in order to find a "cure for homosexuality" (which is stupid and disgusting), so I doubt homosexuals were treated any better before then. Or maybe they were? Who knows?
According to the Holocaust Museum, though, they only took homosexual men to concentation camps because it was harder to tell if women were lesbians.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: BarkingLizards on February 05, 2013, 12:15:13 PM
Most people thought it was ungodly, but that's why they all hid it. Heck, President Buchanan was gay...But Scott probably wanted to add more dynamics to her character. If she fell for, lets say Alek, then her role in the story wouldn't be as exciting.

On another note, Lilith is a goddess of dreams, but I forget from what mythology, that maybe where he is getting the name, Cause in Armenian, that's where the name Lilit came from.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: stopthattime_rave on February 05, 2013, 12:20:47 PM
Uh forgive me but i thought it was just that Lilit didn't realise Deryn was a girl. So it wouldn't matter?
"I think you're the most brilliant boy I've ever met."
"I know you better than you think, Mr. Sharp."
"You don't know what a friend you have in Dylan."

LILIT WAS KINDA DROPPING HINTS LEFT AND RIGHT IN HER LAST SCENE.
Scott-La's confirmed both Lilit's Not-Being-Straight-ness and her knowing Damn Well that Deryn's a chick, so.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Anchorgurl1 on February 07, 2013, 01:05:26 PM
RAVE!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: stopthattime_rave on February 13, 2013, 07:37:12 AM
IT'S ME!!!!!! :DD
((i have so much hw to do these days i could shit erasers; ttyl))
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: One Person on February 13, 2013, 06:53:46 PM
IT'S ME!!!!!! :DD
((i have so much hw to do these days i could shit erasers; ttyl))
It's about time you came here after about...four months? Good old days seeing bright red letters...and would you please don't bring the topic again.
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bramblepool on February 17, 2013, 09:42:24 AM
RAAAAAAAAAAAVE!
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: stopthattime_rave on February 17, 2013, 04:19:15 PM
DD: You're right. Sorry.
And yes hello Bramble my dear :DD
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Bramblepool on February 17, 2013, 10:40:17 PM
*HUG TACKLE*
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Nightwatcher on November 25, 2013, 06:18:48 AM
This isn't meant to pick a fight. But now that Scott has chucked Lilit out of the closet, I was wondering what kind of situation she'd be in. Alas, Google has failed me. Does anyone know how the Ottoman Empire treated gays/lesbians in 1914? (I feel a fanfic brewing.  ;) )
I just say this in the "who's online" thing and thought to input.

While I don't know the specifics of the Ottoman outlook on homosexuality, I do know that the Ottomans were an Islamic government and state, and when you put that together, it is more likely that it wasn't... encouraged...
Title: Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
Post by: Xeno-SP on November 25, 2013, 09:00:06 PM
This isn't meant to pick a fight. But now that Scott has chucked Lilit out of the closet, I was wondering what kind of situation she'd be in. Alas, Google has failed me. Does anyone know how the Ottoman Empire treated gays/lesbians in 1914? (I feel a fanfic brewing.  ;) )
I just say this in the "who's online" thing and thought to input.

While I don't know the specifics of the Ottoman outlook on homosexuality, I do know that the Ottomans were an Islamic government and state, and when you put that together, it is more likely that it wasn't... encouraged...
And also, I need to point out that Lilit would have been executed if the Muslims found out that she came out of the closet. It's Islam, for Pete's sake. Even Christians have done that long time ago, until some of them got their eyes open and started growing up.