Scott Westerfeld Forum

Scott's Books => Leviathan / Behemoth / Goliath => Topic started by: Andrew aka awesome on August 10, 2012, 09:59:46 PM

Title: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Andrew aka awesome on August 10, 2012, 09:59:46 PM
what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 10, 2012, 11:38:02 PM
Best case: She's dishonourably discharged and sent home.
Worst case: She'd be hung.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: tridecagirl on August 11, 2012, 12:10:08 AM
They wouldn't hang a girl. As they say, too embarassing. They'd probably kick her out and give her a pension to keep her quiet. If word got out they'd be a laughingstock.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 11, 2012, 12:41:57 AM
Yes but if they did it would be a great opportunity for Clanker propaganda to exploit.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: gavinfuzzy on August 11, 2012, 12:44:25 AM
That depends. In which point of time did people find out.  ;D
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 11, 2012, 01:22:09 AM
Simply put; it wouldn't be a good thing.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: gavinfuzzy on August 11, 2012, 01:44:32 AM
Simply put; it wouldn't be a good thing.

But after receiving a medal and all, you'd think they'll be cool with it... except that the males will be shamed that a girl had outdone them in service quality... ( That sounded wrong, but yeah).
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 11, 2012, 01:52:40 AM
Not at all. It's true. Though you would have thought the freaking Darwinists would be more sexually equal in things. Who better would know that there's no difference between males and females other than one chromosome than the Darwinists?
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 11, 2012, 03:36:45 AM
Simply put; it wouldn't be a good thing.

But after receiving a medal and all, you'd think they'll be cool with it... except that the males will be shamed that a girl had outdone them in service quality... ( That sounded wrong, but yeah).

There is a looong list of decorated soldiers who were executed for treason. The medal only adds to the embarrassment.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 11, 2012, 03:47:08 AM
Look at the Soviets. Post Bolshivek revolution, having won something from the Tsar was pretty much a death sentence.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: tridecagirl on August 11, 2012, 11:03:48 AM
Simply put; it wouldn't be a good thing.

But after receiving a medal and all, you'd think they'll be cool with it... except that the males will be shamed that a girl had outdone them in service quality... ( That sounded wrong, but yeah).

Nah. They'd be more pissed. Like I said, probably shut her up. Maybe prison, but it wasn't punishable by death.
Not at all. It's true. Though you would have thought the freaking Darwinists would be more sexually equal in things. Who better would know that there's no difference between males and females other than one chromosome than the Darwinists?

It may be a physical thing as well... at least in the US, females aren't allowed in some combat roles for both physical strength reasons and psychological crap. Apparently they think if a woman goes on a hostage mission and is injured, the men would save her and not the hostage. I don't think that's true, and if it is, it's not HER fault.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 11, 2012, 11:13:07 AM
That hostage shit? Ain't true. I know a girl who was a Marine, went in on a mission like that. Lost most of her arm to an IED and she just kept going. Girls can do any job a boy can, and they can do some of them better.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 11, 2012, 04:19:08 PM
Females soldiers are equal to their male counterparts in many respects, but you can't just turn on 2,000+ years of military tradition in less than a century. Most militaries have been built around men and their strengths and weaknesses; women have been serving for less than 100 years in active combat roles and it'll take a lot more than tough female soldiers to update military policy. It took the death of millions in the trenches of WWI for them to abandon cavalry charges, and that change was made after the war.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 11, 2012, 04:36:57 PM
Which is part of the reason I think that Westerfeld saying that WWI not happeneing is a GOOD thing...yeah, right. Now, instead of being mowed down by machine guns, those cavalry men are going to be blasted to bits by fabricated rockets...actually, that's not a bad thing. I wanted the Clankers to burn in Goliath, and that didn't happen. But now...they shoved off one ass-raping, and they just got themselves in line for an even BIGGER one.
Who wants to guess that America would nuke THEM too as well as Japan when WWII happens in the Leviathan universe?
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Luna Lovegood on August 11, 2012, 06:37:34 PM
Let's not forget the fact that a lot of men, (Especially in that time.) Thought it was the woman's duty, and sole way to help out with a war, was to stay safe and home and be a baby factory and make more soldiers. With that sort of mentality in mind, yeah Deryn def would have been in trouble.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Daft_Prince on August 11, 2012, 08:43:35 PM
I'd argue that learning not to use cavalry isn't worth 16 million deaths. The idea that a World War is a good thing because you'll learn to do it better next time sounds like pretty awful reasoning.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Andrew aka awesome on August 11, 2012, 09:39:54 PM
Simply put; it wouldn't be a good thing.

But after receiving a medal and all, you'd think they'll be cool with it... except that the males will be shamed that a girl had outdone them in service quality... ( That sounded wrong, but yeah).
alright i know for a fact that in WW11 a girl disguised as a man was at a ceremony got best hero or some random medal and her officer said something like my best man is their anything you want to say? she took off her uniform and yelled i'm a girl, guess what happened, she was disgraced, deprived of the medal and fired and the crowd booed
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Bramblepool on August 12, 2012, 12:30:37 AM
Shed probably get discharged and sent home to Glasgow then the crew would be sworn to secrecy as to not cause a scandal.  Either that or she would murder the captain take over the leviathan and hang anyone that defyed her.  Either one.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: tridecagirl on August 12, 2012, 12:41:40 AM
One reporter disguised herself for front line reporting. When she revealed herself, she was sent to a sanitorium.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 12, 2012, 12:46:53 AM
Which is part of the reason I think that Westerfeld saying that WWI not happeneing is a GOOD thing...yeah, right. Now, instead of being mowed down by machine guns, those cavalry men are going to be blasted to bits by fabricated rockets...actually, that's not a bad thing. I wanted the Clankers to burn in Goliath, and that didn't happen. But now...they shoved off one ass-raping, and they just got themselves in line for an even BIGGER one.
Who wants to guess that America would nuke THEM too as well as Japan when WWII happens in the Leviathan universe?

Both sides used cavalry charges, not just the Central Powers. If the Clankers are the level technologically they are in Leviathan, than by World War II they'd probably have Wernher's two-stage ICBM and a lot of the tech that never came to light until after German scientists were taken by allied countries. And I don't see America using nukes on Germany. I honestly see them skipping World War II altogether and going straight to a Cold War between Germany and America (unless the Bolshevik revolution made the USSR into a Clanker state).

I have to say, Scott really made the Germans out to be clear cut villains with no redeeming qualities. We're told that Germany wanted to attack Great Britain so they started the war, but we're never shown any real proof of this. The alliance system was such a mess at the time that I doubt any competent strategist would have tried to exploit it to start a war with Britain. He made Darwinists out to be the clear good guys, even though they're on the same level as Dr. Frankenstein as far as depravity goes.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 12, 2012, 03:59:12 AM
Fair points...wasn't thinking to well when I wrote this...(late night.)
As for the good/bad guy thing, I think that's jsut a side effect of writing about war to pre-teens and teens, especcially ones who (for the most part) can't tell the difference between an assault rifle and a machine gun.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 12, 2012, 05:10:47 AM
I cannot accept that excuse. That's just talking down to your readers if you write like that. It's insulting and I don't think that's what Scott was doing.

I reference a lot in my arguments, but in Margaret Peterson Haddix's Shadow Children series, she managed to make a group of people who killed children as part of their job description just as relatable as the main characters. She showed that they weren't evil without removing the stigma that they were still the enemy and were to be brought down.

That series is marked as being for ages 8-12, while Leviathan is marked for ages 12 and up. By that logic pre-teens and teens have gotten dumber since 1998 (Original publishing date of Among the Hidden).
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 12, 2012, 05:23:03 AM
And you just said exactly what I think; Teens HAVE gotten dumber since 1998. A LOT dumber. Why do you think shows like Adventure Time do so well (no offence if you like the show), Twilight sells like it's made of gold wrapped in cocain, and good stuff like Mortal Engines never gets heard of?
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 12, 2012, 06:02:29 AM
The sad thing is that I'm inclined to agree with you. I've never sat down and taken the time to watch more than a few seconds of Adventure time (I hardly watch tv anymore), but what I have seen isn't exactly quality entertainment. The fact that explosion are enough to distract people from glaring plot holes or generally boring and tired plots (I'm looking at you, Transformers) is a testament to that fact.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Andrew aka awesome on August 12, 2012, 08:14:07 AM
don't you think it's funny how far away from the main part people can get? i don't even remember the main part and this is my post! or is it? )?
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 12, 2012, 09:30:50 AM
don't you think it's funny how far away from the main part people can get? i don't even remember the main part and this is my post! or is it? )?
Its yours, and we were discussing what would happen if Deryn's true gender was revealied to everyone. Main problem; there's only so much you can say about that.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Daft_Prince on August 12, 2012, 11:14:39 AM
It was all pretty well layed out by Dr. Barlow.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: gavinfuzzy on August 12, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
And you just said exactly what I think; Teens HAVE gotten dumber since 1998. A LOT dumber. Why do you think shows like Adventure Time do so well (no offence if you like the show), Twilight sells like it's made of gold wrapped in cocain, and good stuff like Mortal Engines never gets heard of?

I kinda like adventure time...  :(

And yes, I just realized Mortal Engines DID get brought into bookstores locally, up to the 2010 reissue... just never sold, and they were recalled back to the warehouse.  :'(

Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 12, 2012, 02:06:27 PM
It was all pretty well layed out by Dr. Barlow.
Exactly.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Luna Lovegood on August 12, 2012, 02:19:36 PM
And you just said exactly what I think; Teens HAVE gotten dumber since 1998. A LOT dumber. Why do you think shows like Adventure Time do so well (no offence if you like the show), Twilight sells like it's made of gold wrapped in cocain, and good stuff like Mortal Engines never gets heard of?

I kinda like adventure time...  :(

And yes, I just realized Mortal Engines DID get brought into bookstores locally, up to the 2010 reissue... just never sold, and they were recalled back to the warehouse.  :'(



SO THAT"S why I can't find a copy.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: gavinfuzzy on August 12, 2012, 02:31:15 PM

SO THAT"S why I can't find a copy.

That's my theory for my country at least. I went to a book warehouse sale. INFINITE 2010 reissues! Oh, and I got a 2006 hardcover A Darkling Plain and 2005 hardcover Infernal Devices. But still, no one seems to be buying the 2010 reissues. $5 people, buy it and read the whole series for $20! Oh, infinite Fever Crumb too... I swear there are as many A Darkling Plains and Infernal Devices as there are Clockwork angels.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 12, 2012, 02:31:59 PM

SO THAT"S why I can't find a copy.

That's my theory for my country at least. I went to a book warehouse sale. INFINITE 2010 reissues! Oh, and I got a 2006 hardcover A Darkling Plain and 2005 hardcover Infernal Devices. But still, no one seems to be buying the 2010 reissues. $5 people, buy it and read the whole series for $20! Oh, infinite Fever Crumb too... I swear there are as many A Darkling Plains and Infernal Devices as there are Clockwork angels.

How very strange...
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 12, 2012, 03:08:54 PM
I must find these fabled "warehouse sales" and purchase the whole series ten times over. Then I will hoard the unused copies until the movie comes out and sell them online for a fortune! Then I will use that money to buy a furniture store specializing in flimsy, impossible to assemble furniture. People will become so confused that they'll follow the included instructions without question. Insert tab A into slot B, insert tab B into slot C, submit to the Brain Traction.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Daft_Prince on August 12, 2012, 03:10:41 PM
It's funny how this has basically become the unofficial Leviathan and Mortal Engines forum.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 12, 2012, 03:12:29 PM
I must find these fabled "warehouse sales" and purchase the whole series ten times over. Then I will hoard the unused copies until the movie comes out and sell them online for a fortune! Then I will use that money to buy a furniture store specializing in flimsy, impossible to assemble furniture. People will become so confused that they'll follow the included instructions without question. Insert tab A into slot B, insert tab B into slot C, submit to the Brain Traction.
I KNEW you were going to make that refernce, I FUCKING knew it!
And Prince, taht's because if you like Leviathan, you like ME, and vice versa.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: MonkeyButler on August 12, 2012, 05:58:07 PM
I feel so left out! I still haven't found a Mortal Engines copy in either my library or Barnes & Noble. grrrr......
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Andrew aka awesome on August 12, 2012, 10:29:21 PM
i went to a barnes and noble looking for a book in one of my favourite series and guess what! it just sold out a few seconds ago! >:(
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Andrew aka awesome on August 12, 2012, 10:36:45 PM
holy cow if you press BUIS, you see the emoticon
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'([/
s][/i][/u][/b]
                               0ntt
                               ldar
                               deli
                                 rik
                                 lce
                                 is
                                 n
                                 e
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Andrew aka awesome on August 12, 2012, 10:38:46 PM
oops the BUIS and letters under neath were supposed so say something :'(
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 13, 2012, 01:54:57 AM
I feel so left out! I still haven't found a Mortal Engines copy in either my library or Barnes & Noble. grrrr......

I've never been to a Barnes & Noble that did. Try Amazon if you don't really care which edition you get.

The German Edition has a pretty nice cover...
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: MonkeyButler on August 13, 2012, 02:23:20 AM
Yeah. I should do that! Thank you, TractionEra. I will try that asap.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 21, 2012, 06:37:48 AM
Jgd jiffy jg
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: gavinfuzzy on August 21, 2012, 09:14:50 PM
I feel so left out! I still haven't found a Mortal Engines copy in either my library or Barnes & Noble. grrrr......

I've never been to a Barnes & Noble that did. Try Amazon if you don't really care which edition you get.

The German Edition has a pretty nice cover...

Amazon UK has the 1st edition softcover reprints of 2007. I got that. Hey, at least it's still the 1st edition cover. If you don't mind used items, you can get true 1st edtion hardcover.

I'll add a used 1st edition ME and Predator's Gold to my next Amazon order, thank you.  ;D

Link to the german cover? (Not like I can read german).
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: TractionEra on August 22, 2012, 04:14:52 AM
http://www.amazon.de/Mortal-Engines-St%C3%A4dte-Philip-Reeve/dp/3473583421/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1345572673&sr=8-3

German Cover.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 22, 2012, 06:19:40 AM
Schmancy.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: MonkeyButler on August 23, 2012, 08:22:24 AM
that looks awesome
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 23, 2012, 08:44:19 AM
Yup
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Daft_Prince on August 23, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
The only picture I've seen that really transfers the shear scale of the city.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 23, 2012, 04:49:23 PM
Yeah.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: MismatchedSocks on August 25, 2012, 03:19:19 AM
I noticed that every thread now has ME all over it. Wasn't Fever Crumb part of that series?
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 25, 2012, 04:24:33 AM
I need to finish ME.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: Straif on August 25, 2012, 04:46:56 AM
Fever Crumb's the prequel.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 25, 2012, 04:47:27 AM
HGFDASDAUYTG
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: MonkeyButler on August 25, 2012, 07:31:28 AM
MNGBHBIBIGIEHLDHGLIVBLSRIGHBZIREAG VERGIERGHIGUARIGHAWGHHGBGRHAG BGFIOGFUWER
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 27, 2012, 03:34:38 AM
Well, then.
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: One Person on August 27, 2012, 06:36:45 PM
MNGBHBIBIGIEHLDHGLIVBLSRIGHBZIREAG VERGIERGHIGUARIGHAWGHHGBGRHAG BGFIOGFUWER



[

SPEAK UP...WHAT?!
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: gavinfuzzy on August 27, 2012, 10:06:30 PM
http://www.amazon.de/Mortal-Engines-St%C3%A4dte-Philip-Reeve/dp/3473583421/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1345572673&sr=8-3

German Cover.

Screw. you. That looks so awesome.Hope I don't add it to my cart.  ;D
Title: Re: what would happen if everyone found out Deryn is a girl?
Post by: ChickWithThePurpleGuitar on August 29, 2012, 11:56:19 AM
Tis indeed awesome,