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Author Topic: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914  (Read 9982 times)

Capt Dec

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2011, 12:41:06 PM »

Uh forgive me but i thought it was just that Lilit didn't realise Deryn was a girl. So it wouldn't matter?
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LiterateChick

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2011, 12:48:20 PM »

We're pretty sure that Lilit had in fact guessed Deryn was a girl when she kissed her. Plus Scott revealed that she was les in the last meet up.
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Moonie

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2011, 01:46:05 PM »

Uh forgive me but i thought it was just that Lilit didn't realise Deryn was a girl. So it wouldn't matter?
"I think you're the most brilliant boy I've ever met."
"I know you better than you think, Mr. Sharp."
"You don't know what a friend you have in Dylan."

LILIT WAS KINDA DROPPING HINTS LEFT AND RIGHT IN HER LAST SCENE.
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Capt Dec

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2011, 09:07:32 PM »

Ah ok forgive me then, it's been a while since i read behemoth, I appear to have rather forgotten quite a bit then.
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CrazedHungerGamesFangirl

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2011, 01:31:25 AM »

Lilit rules, doesn't she? :)

Hmm...do you think she told her father about her homosexuality? Seeing as how close they were...
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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2011, 08:53:11 AM »

Lilit rules, doesn't she? :)

Hmm...do you think she told her father about her homosexuality? Seeing as how close they were...
A father would not abandon his child. If she is born this way, then the father will accept what God has given him.
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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2011, 09:31:13 PM »

I used to be a dick here... :'(
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Leo-wa

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2011, 03:03:16 PM »

This was something I'd been wondering about to.

Another thing about Lilit, she's an Armenian Christian living in a majority Muslim Turkish city (that's why her family was part of the Committee of Union and Progress instead of the Young Turks, the Young Turks were only for Turks). So I'm not sure if herself and her family would take the Armenian Christian view of lesbianism or the Turkish Muslim view. A quick and not exhaustive google search seems to indicate that both groups thought that Lesbians didn't exist though. Of course, I'd need to do more research to verify that.
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Iris.

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2011, 07:37:39 AM »

I'm not sure if Lilit's Christian though. I think her and Zaven are atheists or at least agnostic, seeing as they're into secular democracy and all that. But I think the views of most religions at the time were anti-homosexuality. Especially since I think they'd only recently proved that lesbianism was scientifically viable (there's a famous anecdote about Queen Victoria being shocked when a politician asked if they should make female homosexuality illegal, saying she didn't want to "give women ideas" and although it's probably not true I think it's typical of attitudes of the time).


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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2011, 06:24:10 AM »

Oh dear god...not this again. Ok, my opinion: Lilit is a proud lesbian and is awesome, Zaven loves his daughter the way she is and he is pretty awesome too, I have no idea about their religion, and I am done.
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waxesnostalgic

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2011, 11:42:58 AM »

They have got a cross on the wall in their home... not that that really means anything.

I don't think it really matters whether or not people thought lesbians existed at this time. But I will say that people were writing novels like Carmilla during the 19th century, and then they were still reading Sappho too. The word "lesbian" was coined before 1900.
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Iris.

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2011, 10:37:25 PM »

I think the thing that a lot of writers do is imagine that since people didn't talk much about homosexuality in those days, they didn't exist. If we assume that there were just as many LGBTQ people back then as there are now, then that's an awful lot of people who most likely would have spent their whole lives struggling with their sexuality because of the social norms.

Which is why I really love Lilit, because it's like Scott Westerfeld's acknowledging that yes, these people existed. But what's better is that Lilit doesn't seem to struggle with it, but seems comfortable with it, and it doesn't define her at all. Also, she's rather badass.
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stopthattime_rave

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2013, 12:06:59 PM »

Somebody please tell me why Scott wanted lilith to be a lesbian?
I don't know!! He just did.  Probably to make it interesting....
Interesting? I hope not. Male authors always put some lesbians in their books.
Well people were actually gay/lesbian back then,  so maybe he was trying to make it realistic.
I don't know, man. If people know Lilith is a lesbian, then they will use her in their dirty fanfics. Trust me, I've seen everything. Look what they did to Call of Duty and Resident Evil.
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C: Hell, if anyone's been treated as the fandom bike, to use such a rude term, it's Deryn. There's porn with her fucking Alek, Lilit, and Newkirk. And that's not counting weird-ass slash ship drabbles. (Deryn/Bauer? What the fuck???)
D: People in this fandom actually don't sexualize Lilit (NOT LILITH) Her being a lesbian/bi/pan/fuck if we know for certain has nothing to do with it. There's barely any fic about her, period. :((

I think the thing that a lot of writers do is imagine that since people didn't talk much about homosexuality in those days, they didn't exist. If we assume that there were just as many LGBTQ people back then as there are now, then that's an awful lot of people who most likely would have spent their whole lives struggling with their sexuality because of the social norms.

Which is why I really love Lilit, because it's like Scott Westerfeld's acknowledging that yes, these people existed. But what's better is that Lilit doesn't seem to struggle with it, but seems comfortable with it, and it doesn't define her at all. Also, she's rather badass.
Also, this is good. :BB I would've bolded stuff, but it's pretty damn concise as is. :DD (oh dear god if i only did my homework with this much enthusiasm oh wow)
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sandy5

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2013, 12:14:15 PM »

Now I want to know more about this. DX I don't suppose they were treated very well, though... I know that many homosexuals during WWII were taken to concetration camps and often tortured and experimented on in order to find a "cure for homosexuality" (which is stupid and disgusting), so I doubt homosexuals were treated any better before then. Or maybe they were? Who knows?
According to the Holocaust Museum, though, they only took homosexual men to concentation camps because it was harder to tell if women were lesbians.
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BarkingLizards

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Re: Attitudes to Homosexuality in 1914
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2013, 12:15:13 PM »

Most people thought it was ungodly, but that's why they all hid it. Heck, President Buchanan was gay...But Scott probably wanted to add more dynamics to her character. If she fell for, lets say Alek, then her role in the story wouldn't be as exciting.

On another note, Lilith is a goddess of dreams, but I forget from what mythology, that maybe where he is getting the name, Cause in Armenian, that's where the name Lilit came from.
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