One Last Pullman Post

Posted on by scott

In the comments to the previous post, there have been many fierce arguments about Phillip Pullman’s His Dark Materials.

It’s great to see you all debating this so seriously. And despite the fact that some of you are getting angry and making more typos than usual, you’re actually much more respectful to each other than most adults. (If you ever glance at political sites, you’ll read far ruder things than appear here.) I’m happy to see that. I like you guys a lot, and the community we’ve created here together is important to me. Keep being nice to each other!

But keep arguing too. Debating is an important thing to learn to do, even when it’s crazy-making.

However, I want to point out one thing that keeps going missing in the debate about Pullman: At no point in His Dark Materials do the characters kill god. This rumor isn’t a “controversial” aspect of the trilogy, it’s a lie about the trilogy. And like so many lies these days, this one is spread by people forwarding emails to each other. You probably have seen this sort of thing happen with rumors in school; after all, it’s more fun to spread a nasty rumor than it is figure out the truth behind it.

But how do I know this rumor isn’t true? Well, unlike rumors about what happened at someone’s party or who kissed whom, everything in His Dark Material is written down, and you can read it to find out exactly what happens. So if you go to page 188 of the US mass market paperback of Amber Spyglass, you’ll discover that Pullman’s Authority is not the creator. He’s not god. Ogunwe says so in the following words, “It shocked some of us, too, to learn that the Authority was not the creator.”

Case closed. The Authority is a fraud. He’s a liar, just like the people who started the rumor that in His Dark Materials the characters “kill god.” In a funny way, those people are trying to pull off the same kind of trick as the Authority. Okay, they’re not exactly playing god, but they are lying to control what you read, which affects what you think, and what you believe. They are frauds. (Or VERY sloppy readers.)

Of course, as with most rumors, the vast majority of the people saying these things aren’t lying. They’re just passing the rumor on without knowing if it’s true or not. That’s not as bad, but it’s also not something you get a medal for.

By the way, there’s another place where you can see that no one “kills god” in HDM. That’s the scene where he dies. Lyra and Will find him and free him from the place the bad guys have been keeping him and using him as a symbol to help them control everyone. It turns out he’s really old. Here’s how it happens in the book:

Between them they helped the ancient of days out of his crystal cell; it wasn’t hard, for he was as light as paper, and he would have followed them everywhere, having no will of his own, and responding to simple kindness like a flower to the sun. But in the open air there was nothing to stop the wind from damaging him, and to their dismay his form began to loosen and dissolve. Only a few moments later he had vanished completely, and their last impression was of those eyes, blinking in wonder, and a sigh of the most profound and exhausted relief.

Now, come on. Does that sound like Lyra and Will are “killing” him? Could anyone actually misread that as a murder? They’re “dismayed” when he dies. It’s a sad and touching scene, not a victory lap.

So he’s not god, and Lyra and Will don’t kill him. Anyone who says otherwise a) hasn’t read it, b) can’t read, c) is lying.

Sorry to keep pointing this out, but false rumors really annoy me. Especially when they’re used to keep books out of people’s hands.

I’m not saying you all have to go read Pullman right now. Maybe you just don’t like armoured bears. But there’s one thing you really should remember: People who tell you juicy rumors, on the internet or in real life, usually aren’t trying to help you by giving you secret, important info. Very often, they’re trying to make themselves feel important, or hurt someone else, or control you in some way.

Don’t assume rumors are true, no matter how often you hear them.

193 thoughts on “One Last Pullman Post”

  1. First???? Me???
    I just finished the first (GC) book and it was absolutely AMAZING! I simply *cannot* wait to get my hands on the next one.

    I never understand all that religious controversy over books (especially since I didn’t see any in this one). To me, books are like another world- a magic world. They’re called fiction because they are- but I do learn tons from them.

    But anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing GC tomorrow (the movie) =]
    <3

  2. I’m glad that’s been cleared up. It was sort of weird to see people actually getting angry at each other on this site.

    This post made me think of the site Snopes, reminding me to then check if they had written anything on it- which they had. Seems they’re on the “Pullman hates Christians” bandwagon, as well.

  5. Fantastic post. Thanks for breaking it all down. I’m going to forward this link to a few friends who are wary of the series because of the above mentioned emails going around!

  6. yes! another score for intelligent discourse!

    and as others have said, lying is bad. spreading rumors is bad. saying completely untrue things is bad. smearing things is bad.

    very interesting post—was cool to read some thinking posts of longness and not just short announcements or cool links.

    and really, discussions on the internet, especially about religion, get very, very stupid. they’re all “YOU HATE JESUS!” and “YEAH I HATE JESUS CUZ HE DOESN’T EXIST!!” and “YOU’RE GOING TO HELL, THEN!”

    if people take thirty seconds to even pretend to listen to each other, then a lot of created contraversies go away.
    another point—CREATED. CONTRAVERSY.
    notice how no one had any problems with the trilogy until they made a high-profile movie out of it?

  7. Thank you so much for posting this. This is one of the things that bothers me most about all the discussion/argument about this series. Every time anyone says something about ‘killing god’ I cringe and think ‘but…but..!’, especially when the person who posted was apparently trying to defend the series. It is wonderful to see someone point that out in a public blog like this.

  8. ok you know whats great about ya blogs kids post kids get stuff that most adults dont so when theres a debate its only about the obiouse some adults say kids are dumb NO! most of us arnt dumb we may not know everything but we get adult question “should this book be banned?” adult awnser “NO!” adult awnser #2 “YES!” kid awnser ” but i want to read it but my friend dosent is it really your chose what we should read?” gosh i know this from personal experiance not saying all adult are like this but alot are

    i know this is kind of off subject but its just so true maybe thats why the transition from adult to kid is so WEIRD personality wise(u know)!

    ok this is realy off subject but those of you that have seen the movie when they have the bear fight do they eat the heart i mean that was sooo cool(sorry im weird) and sybolic…

  10. Thank you, Scott, from the perspective of a high school librarian. I’m tagging this one in del.icio.us to use for future censorship displays.

  13. I’m sure this makes me a horrible person, but… I’m disappointed that they *don’t* kill God! I, too, have not read HDM yet, and I, too, thought that HDM was this militantly atheist answer to The Chronicles Of Narnia, where God is killed and/or dies.

    And, the thing is… I thought that was *awesome*! And I’m not an atheist, “militant” or otherwise; I’m a semi-observant, quasi-secular Jew who keeps vaguely kosher. (I definitely felt weird typing that I was disappointed that they don’t kill “God”!)

    And I’ve got nothing against the Narnia books; I loved them as a kid. But the way that fundies have co-opted the recent film adaptation sets my teeth on edge, so when I thought there was a series that went the entirely other way, I got really jazzed.

    So, all I can say is: Aw, man.

    Also, Scott, I love the Uglies series to bits and pieces and can’t wait to read Extras. I find your work awesome and inspiring.

  14. Comment the second: Um, I haven’t read the other thread, so I hope my post doesn’t cause a flamewar. No flamewars! Pretty please! I know my opinion is wacky and probably not shared by any other rational human.

  15. good moral
    sadly i havent read the book
    i read the golden compass like 2 years ago though!!
    *starts praying that fans of goldencompass dont kill me* (thinks: oh well ill sleep with my eyes open, again)

  17. *claps for scott*
    thanks for that great perspective. I think I should print this out and hand it to everyone of those stupid protesters outside the movie theater. (They don’t like me much. I sat on the bench reading The Golden Compass for the millionth time while discussing the amazingness of it and how the protests are misguided and all around stupid with my friends while waiting for my ride from the movie. tehehe)

  18. Thank you for helping clear this up, next time I see anyone who claims that they “killed God” I think I’ll point them this way.

  20. ha. scott-la, i think you’ve started a new chain email going around now.

    and that’s really funny, ImInLoveWithJonathan!. i would totally do something like that, where i just like made a big show of reading the book right in front of them.

    yeah, the christian extremist’s obsession with the Chronicles of Narnia bothered me too, because the books themselves largely avoided the overt, nauseatingly religious. i liked them a lot when i read them, but seeing them championed as this huge anti-Harry Potter made me not like them as much.

  21. That was exactly what I would have wanted to say. Thank you Scott! (I do want to e-mail this around now)

  22. I would like to pull a meaningful quote from your new (amazing) book of essays: “Ignorance doesn’t lead to salvation, nor does knowledge pave the way to sin” (bottom of page 29)

    I have shared this quote with my deeply Christian friends (who are also secretly big GC fans) and they now use it whenever someone bad mouths the book to them.

    Thank you Scott!

    P.S. I have a special space on my bookshelf (right between JK Rowling and Tamara Pierce) for EVERY one of your books! I treasure them!

  23. Where would people have gotten the idea that the books were about killing God?

    Maybe it was when the author said: “My books are about killing God.”

    Also, I wouldn’t say that the Authority is not God because he’s a fraud. Pullman’s point is that God (i.e. the God of the Bible) is a fraud.

    And that’s fine. There’s a lot of books with Christian themes, why can’t there be one with an athiest theme. But we shouldn’t pretend the books are something they’re not.

  24. I was just about to post the quote Jacob did, I guess I got here a little late.
    I was trying to defend Pullman to my dad(Who is way against all of it), and he got all indignant about it and found the quote where the author said his books where about killing god. And another quote straight from him, his book are “trying to undermine the basis of Christian Belief.”
    So, yeah the guy isn’t god. And true, they obviously did not kill this fake god, but he even says that its about undermining christianity.

  25. THANK YOU. geez. haha.

    I think a lot of people can get confused because The Authority isn’t the creator, but he’s the god of the Church. And also Pullman gets hilariously atheist-crazy in interviews sometimes (ie proclaiming the series as the anti-Chronicles of Narnia).

    I haven’t read the series in awhile. I really need to reread before I see The Golden Compass! =O

  26. Jacob & Savvy-la: That may well be what Pullman intended but it sure isn’t how the books read to me. I do not agree with his assessment of the trilogy. Actually, I’ve long since learned that you can’t always believe what authors say about their own books.

    For instance, I see no evidence in the Harry Potter books that Dumbledore is gay. I see no evidence that he isn’t either, but there’s nothing except Rowling’s say so that he is gay. If that’s what she intended then I don’t get why it wasn’t actually in the books.

  28. also, maybe it’s like “metaphorical”?
    you know, that craaaaazy craaaazy word that fundamentalist wackos don’t understand?
    like, maybe things in the bible aren’t word-for-word true?
    or maybe that showing a god can be corrupt or evil is showing that blindly following an organized religion can be bad?
    or, like, maybe showing that religious leaders can be imposters and liars even though people believe in them, and that maybe they really have no idea how the universe was created?
    or maybe that people do a lot of bad things in the name of thier gods?
    just some crazy interpretaions here…

  30. Yeah, I think that the books don’t really read anti-christian, but my dad wont buy them for me whether that’s true or not, which means I have to keep annoying my friends to borrow them. I just thought it was worth pointing out that, even if he didn’t do it pointedly, he did means them to be against christianty. It obviously all dpends on how your read them. I’m in the middle of The Subtle Knife right now, and see nothing bad at all about them. Just because the author has a few problems doesn’t mean we should avoid his great book, right?!

  31. Savvy-la: Just because the author has a few problems doesn’t mean we should avoid his great book, right?!

    While I’m not convinced Pullman has “problems” I do agree with your sentiment. One of my favourite writers is Knut Hamsun who was known for his fascist views and admiration for Hitler. Views I think are completely abhorrent. But wow was he a wonderful writer.

    Not reading books because the people who wrote them don’t share your religious or political beliefs mean robbing yourself of reading some of the great books in the world. Also how boring to only read books by people who think just like you.

  32. Thank you very much scott-la. although i dont think i still ever will read the books, i appreciate the explaination.
    And AGAIN scott-la, WHERE IS THE DERRING-DO ❓ i would really like to know.

  33. As far as I’m concerned, the world’s been more or less the same since the books were written. Any sharp decline in Christianity/sharp rise in Atheism? Not that I’ve heard of.

    I wonder: if you didn’t know these books were supposed to be about “killing God”, would you think they were? Or would it just be another fiction series to read?

    When I first started reading the Chronicles of Narnia I didn’t know they were supposed to symbolize Christianity, but after I learned they were, I saw symbolism everywhere (seriously. I re-read them to find symbolism)

    And um I actually do think the author might have a few problems.

  35. Thank you for clearing this up, Scott.
    However, I can see how people would get so upset. The area of God and religion is very sensitive, seeing how most people either strongly believe in God or strongly don’t believe in God. It seems like it would be easy to get confused by the book. Especially in a religious person’s case seeing as the already have a defensive wall up because people are always bashing their religion. I don’t think that anyone meant to start this whole thing(at least not the first people who actually read the books), they just saw that a God-figure died and immediately jumped to conclusions. And with books like the Da Vinci code out there, you can’t really blame them. Im sure there were some His Dark Materials arguments out there before, they were just made more public now that a movie is coming out.
    And I don’t think religious people were necessarily the only ones spreading this rumor without reading the book first.

  36. Ok after reading all the comments I really hope that you all don’t think all religious people are psychotic. You see, it even says in the Bible that the devil will disguise himself as an angel, and in my(very Catholic) opinion, the book-burning Christians are being led astray by that. It says in the Bible not to show off you religion(don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing). They think what they are doing is right, but what they should really do is put down the sign, pick up their Bible and go home to read it. There is a difference between being extremely religious(good), and being a religious extremist(bad).
    Pullman thinks his books are the anti-Narnia? Give me a break. They are popular, but nowhere near that famous and classic. That’s funny that he thinks he can like take down organized religion with them or something. I hate it when authors write good books but then open their mouths and ruin them. Its like, close the mouth and pick up a pen, buddy.
    But not you Scott-la, you’re awesome.

  37. i know—if you actually study religion, most of the things these people are doing are completely the opposite of what is actually preached.

    i mean, in the bible it even talks about how prayer should be private between you and god, not in front of others because you’re trying to show off your holyness or something.
    i think religion is such a private thing, going everywhere bragging and raving about it tarnishes it. religion should be between you, your god or lack thereof, and not random people in the street.

    and i don’t think he was talking about the “anti-Narnia” in popularity or classic, he was talking about symbolism-wise.

    and i know! i’ve heard interviews with authors that reveal them to be such complete idiots, i’m totally put off from reading thier books, even though my friends like them.

  38. Jacob says: Where would people have gotten the idea that the books were about killing God? Maybe it was when the author said: “My books are about killing God.”

    Yes, I agree that the rumors are based more on Googling Pullman than on reading the books. Because reading and thinking about what you’ve read is hard, and Googling and quoting out of context is easy.

    Alas, the emails that travel around don’t say, “The author has made provacative statements about killing god,” nor do they attempt to explain who or what the Authority might symbolize. The emails state flatly that “in the end the children kill god and everyone can do as they please.” That’s a lie, and the truth is more much complex than the rumor-spreaders want you to think. (IWhich suggests that the rumor-spreaders don’t want you to think much at all.)

    Then Jacob says: Also, I wouldn’t say that the Authority is not God because he’s a fraud. Pullman’s point is that God (i.e. the God of the Bible) is a fraud.

    The books distinguish between the Authority and the Creator. That’s a pretty big distinction. And, of course, the Magesterium doesn’t exist in our world, so now you’ve moved pretty far into the realm of literal interpretation by suggesting that there’s a one-to-one parallel between Lyra’s world and ours.

    So let me offer another, less literal interpretation: Pullman’s saying that the divine (symbolized in the books by dust) is much more subtle and complicated than human religions manage to capture. And, yes, that the idols we erect are quite often more about power and control than truth.

    Then Jacob says: But we shouldn’t pretend the books are something they’re not.

    Nowhere have I said the books don’t have an aetheist or agnostic message. But I’m not letting anyone forget that HDM is widely read by Christians as a source of inspiration—my theologian pals in Boston, the editors of Catholic Digest, and the Archbishop of Canterbury to name a few. It’s those ironies that shows how subtle and interesting the books are, and it’s subtleties like these that the emails exist to squash.

    Because, as Seraphina Zane suggests in comment 28, this isn’t an argument between Christians and aetheists, it’s an argument between people who can read on more than one level and people who can’t.

    Clearly, both these kinds of people exist in every faith. Both kinds also exist at every age level, which is the problem many of my readers have had with their parents.

    -scott

    P.S. Okay, this is also part of a bigger argument, between the people who feel righteous pulling books off library shelves and the people who think that’s the opposite of righteous. Which is not to suggest that eveyone who dislikes Pullman tries to ban him, merely to point out that there are old wounds on both sides.

  40. hey, scott, not like this has anything 2 do with this post, but it IS important. so i just found a post and decided to put it on it…

    in the back of specials, it says that there is a special ending (alternate ending) of specials. i found the last 1 or 2 chapters with ur commentary, and was about to ask if that was the alternate ending, but then i remembered that it says:
    “tally’s world could have ended differently…”

    …and u adding reasoning to wat u rote isnt exactly a different ending for tally, and besides, there is a picture that looks different from the one on the cover..

    …so0o0o0o, wheres the alternate ending????????

  43. Okay, so I’m not often a commenter on the blog (though I do read it constantly!) but I feel like I should weigh in on this.

    The comments around here (especially on the last post) seem to talk a lot about how religious kids might be influenced by these books to question their religion and possibly give it up.

    I’m an atheist, just to clear the air. But I have to say that if you’re a religious person who then abandons that religion because you read a book, then your faith in that religion probably wasn’t very strong to start off with. I’ve read all the HDM books at least twice, and I don’t think there’s anything in them encouraging kids to want to kill God. The books aren’t about destroying Christianity… in my opinion, they’re about the power and right of children to learn and choose on their own, and for people to stand up for what they believe instead of letting whoever is “in charge” make all their decisions for them.

  45. Ah, so you do read our comments Scott-la. And you have seen that this debate is a big deal to me and as you said, i will continue it. Yes, maybe they dont kill God but i still see a petetial misreading. But w/e. I can see you point ‘reading between the lines’ eh? Im not Canadian, just seemed to fit. Ok well, i am so very happy that you stopped posting about the debate,it makes me feel better that you try and make oit better. Your still my Fav. author Scott-la, no one can take your place.

  46. That was well put Kelly.
    I do agree with that. Quote “But I have to say that if you’re a religious person who then abandons that religion because you read a book, then your faith in that religion probably wasn’t very strong to start off with.” i agree.
    This is my point though. People also need to build there faith, but i love that point and i t is very true. If i read it and gave it up, i proubly didnt believe because i wanted but because i had to. Thank you for that observation.

  47. ohmygosh! im finally back! i swear! my stupid brain-missing !&*@^#$*@^!($ teachers are just trying to stock up the homework for the two weeks of vacation on top of what we already have! its KILLING ME! i have so much homework that i cant even avoid doing said homework on here! because theres so much of it that if i am on here for even one second i will fail all subjects for the rest of the quarter because of my behindedness! UUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGG!!! i am NOT HAPPY!!!!!!!
    😡 👿 😡 👿

    so sorry i just blew up there. im controlled now. but thats why i havent been on in the last week, and why i havent posted the rest of Graduation. or updated the face ranks. or posted anything. or even commented anything on any of my or anybody elses blog in the last week. but im back. until tomorrow when my teachers start stocking up again. UUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!

    but. i totally agree with Scott-la. even tho i still have not gotten the book from the library. im like hold number 200 or sompthin. i did hear these two guys (that ive never seen before in my life) arguing today at starbucks about the book. i listened. and when i realized which guy was actally explaining what happens in the actual book, almost exactly the same as Scott-la did, i went up to them and was like “oh yeah. this guy, hes totally rite. i shood no. i was there. i saw. yep.” and then left them open-mouthed and freaked. it was somewhat amusing.

    -Lizzy-wa OUT! 😀

  50. Ohhh, Scott, your really seem to be totally for this book. But I can understand why, they do rock, after all. Like I said before, just because I don’t like the author’s personal opinions about religion and such doesn’t mean I should rob myself of his amazing books.
    This argument kind of reminds of the Harry Potter thing where people say that it’s bad because it’s about witch craft. Obviously, the big diference is that His Dark Materials is a whole lot more pointedly conspiratory, but they’re both extremely lame arguments. You’ve got to be looking for something to find problems with in these cases.
    Reminds me, I’m doing a report for English about Banned Books and how rediculous the whole idea is. Actually, I used an example that I got from this Blog and scott posted! That book that was banned in all sorts of places because is had the word scrotum in it! What’s that all about?! Fine, I guess that means they should Ban out science books too, then. People should have to freedom to read whatever they want. It’s not fair to have a great book taken away from your reach by people who don’t think even remotely objectively about things! I want to make my OWN decision about what I read! I don’t want some biased loser deciding things for me!

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